Julia Fordham

By Alex Teitz and Karen Weis

   Hearing that India.Arie was on Julia Fordham’s seventh album was not the biggest surprise. Larry Klein whose work with Joni Mitchell is legendary produced Concrete Love. Klein has worked with Fordham before and pushed her in different ways in this dynamic, melodic and soulful album. The biggest surprise is that Concrete Love saw the light of day.
Concrete Love, like many releases, was stuck in the big label morass. Fordham, who traditionally has been on Virgin Records, switched to a small label within Atlantic Records. Hearing how it came to Vanguard Records can give any cynic hope that small labels are working for their artists.
Julia Fordham is a wiser, more experienced musician whose work reflects a commitment to her art. Concrete Love demonstrates this over and over again. For more information visit juliafordham.com

FEMMUSIC: Can you describe your songwriting technique?

JF: My technique is that I don’t have a technique or have a style that I polish and refine, but rather that pretty much 99% of the songs just seem to come to me with words and the music together at the same time, which is quite unusual, I think. So I think some people you know, start with the guitar and then build up, and maybe put a melody and put some words to it. But I always find that it comes rather completely like that. Like a whole verse or chorus will just sort of come together, or seemingly fall out of the heavens into my lap, and then I have to kind of do the earthly work after all (laughs) and pick up the guitar and run with it a little.
So that sort of generally tends to be how the format goes, and what was different for me on this record when I tried co-writing, instead of having those things in my head for a while and then picking up the guitar and completing them myself, I would take those things that I had in my head and sing them to someone else and let them work out the kind of harmonic chordal structure, and then see where they took it. So I didn’t really sit down and start anything from scratch with anybody. Even the Larry Klein song “Roadside Angel”, he was playing guitar, and something came to me. And then I went away and worked on it and came back and sang it to him, and then he kind of took it somewhere else in the middle, and then I went away and worked on that bit, and I liked that as well. I enjoyed having that sort of other infusion of creativity while handling the whole thing myself, like I felt I’ve done on all the other records. I still wrote a majority of the songs on Concrete Love by myself, but 4 of them, I tried a little twist. (laughs)

FEMMUSIC: What was the biggest challenge making Concrete Love?

JF: I think the biggest challenge was probably the time constraint, because it was sort of very clear that Klein was going on to another project with Joni Mitchell. And also at that time I was hammering for a release date that never actually materialized. But I think that the sort of pressure of knowing that you have a limited time and a limited budget to get everything right can be a blessing in disguise in one way, and there’s something about that invisible pressure that forces you to rise to the occasion. But I think the flip side of that is that you can also see it sort of bearing down on you. Like, “I’ve GOT to get this right! If I don’t get it right by Friday, there won’t BE a Saturday!” (laughs)
I think that was probably the hardest thing. And everything else is sort of almost second nature now, because this will be my seventh record if you include the “Best Of” collection, which I do. I did a couple of remixes and 2 new songs and a bunch of new pictures, so it must be a tall record. I think it was probably that. And also I think the thread of hoping inside you, that you’re hoping to weave a slightly different tapestry, do you know what I mean? Trying to present a slightly different picture so you feel challenged in some way to create something that’s a little different. But just those constraints can bring that about. So I would say that.

FEMMUSIC: How long were you in the studio?

JF: Only about…the whole album was literally recorded, mixed and mastered in under 3 months. And then of course the India.Arie thing was a sort of last minute addition. Pretty fast, isn’t it? It took a long time to write and accumulate those songs, because in between the last album for Virgin which was the “Best Of” collection, it was more like 3 years than 2 years before I went into the studio. And I literally had about 30 songs. But I didn’t want to bog Larry Klein down with all of those. So I literally just gave him the last 16 that I’d written without the 16 before that. I just thought it made it easier, and then we sort of trimmed it down from there. But I had plenty of material to choose from. I put in an awful lot of pre-production myself, in the way that I’ve met other people, worked with them collaboratively in writing or in production technique. So that by the time I gave Klein the bulk of the material I felt that there was a mishmash of eclectic styles, that’s for sure.
And it’s really Larry Klein who should be credited with bringing the cohesive sound of the record together, because he thought that he heard a common thread throughout each song, which was really a soulful thing. Which I think I had missed. He was like, “This is a ‘Dusty in Memphis’ kind of record!” I was like, “It is?” He said, “You’ve written a bunch of soul songs!” I was like, “I have?” (laughs) He was the person who spotted that and made it happened by putting the team together with people like Billy Preston playing Hammond organ, and the guys from Was Not Was singing. I think it really sort of influences and pushes the tracks in a certain way. Part of that flavor comes from that decision in the studio to use those people, who were just so brilliant, but also had a sort of sensibility that leans towards that innate R&B gift. And I think that then infuses the foundation of the tracks and starts building it in a different direction.

FEMMUSIC: How was it working with Larry Klein again?

JF: It was a little different this time because I’ve known him for years now. And I didn’t really consider him as a producer for this record because I completely and thoroughly and utterly wrongly concluded that he wouldn’t want to do another record with me. And I don’t know why I thought that. I think it was probably because I knew he was going into the Joni record, and Joni was doing another one of her classical, orchestral things that is so much work with the arrangements and the orchestras and everything that’s involved with that, that I just couldn’t imagine there would be a little window for me.
And I was talking to him, and he just went, “Hey, by the way, I came to the live gigs”-I did a bunch of stuff at Luna, the Café Largo rather, I did a run of dates there-and Klein was like, “I love the new songs, Josie. I think I should do this record.” And I was like, “You do?” And he hadn’t even heard the demos then. And I was like, “Oh my god! Great! Thanks very much!” And not worrying about who the hell I was going to be doing it with. And then I gave him all these songs, and he actually went off into the desert. And he rang me and said, “Josie, I’m taking the songs to Twobunch Palms” and he went off and said I wouldn’t hear from him for like 4 days or something, and the second day he’s like, “Josie, I have it! It’s a SOUL record!” And then he came over and he’d made notes about each song.
It’s pretty easy for me to work with Klein, because I know how he ticks now. But when I very first worked with him I didn’t really know him terribly well. He’d only just come out of his relationship with Joni Mitchell at the time, and I was sort like, you know, “This man has been married to my favorite idol!” and I’m sure that probably affected how I was around him. I was probably a little in awe in some ways. But now I have obviously a deep respect for his formidable talent, but I feel like we have a sort of kindred spiritual outlook on the songs. I feel confident because I know he really rates me as an artist, so I think I take some comfort in that. So I can put my working hat on and just get down to it. And he’s got a very strong work ethic like my own. We didn’t have time to mess around. Not like, “Hey, let’s take lunch, then come back” but “Josie, can you do this in 3 hours? And don’t make any mistakes!” (laughs)
It was more like that. I’m lucky I don’t need hand-holding or humoring. He’s a captain. There’s nothing meandering about him. It’s very clear about how we have to move this along, to keep it sparking and alive. And yet not cut corners. I feel that sort of richness to the record, and yet there’s still something that’s quite alive about it. I think that’s probably because he was driving the ship. The SS Fordham. (laughs)

FEMMUSIC: When I was first hearing about this album, it was a number of months ago and I came to your website and read your message. And that was one of the biggest reasons I was extremely curious to talk to you.

JF: You mean you read the one about “you’re not going to believe the record’s not coming out?” Yeah, I mean that was pretty shocking because I wrongly assumed…I had a really fruitful run at Virgin. I don’t think many acts make it to the end of their 6 records with one label. And I sort of ran out my contract there and felt really good about that relationship, as an English person signed in England. And then I sort of put down roots here, and thought, “OK, I need to get a record deal here”. I took my residency at Largo, and sang, worked out the new songs, and basically thought, “What will be the right move for me?”
And I felt the right move would be at a label like Division 1, which was a subsidiary of a massive mothership, like an Atlantic. And I thought, “How perfect!” You have a tiny little label with everything that goes with that, which basically means a modest album budget with modest expectation, which is great because there’s no one breathing down your neck saying, “What’s the single? How are we going to break the Top 40!” But by the same token, you could, if things go well, have access to the mothership at Warner and Atlantic. So it seemed like a really good conscious choice. But what I didn’t take into consideration was that umbilical cord to the mother company can be chopped without warning, and that’s exactly what happened. I didn’t even see the demise coming. And what was fascinating in a way, on reflection, was that it was an unfortunate lesson learned, because you’re not really signed to Division One Atlantic, you’re really floating around in the AOL. When Mr. AOL goes, “It’s the end of the year, we need to save some money! Get rid of all the satellite companies!” and in 5 days they shut down those offices. It wasn’t just Division One. It’s not like they get rid of all the acts. They literally closed down the office, all the people who go to work every day. But then of course they hold the right to your record, and you get trapped in what I’ve started calling the “Black Hole of Business Affairs Quagmire.” And there I was, sort of flapping around.
And you suddenly realize that you’re really anything to do with Atlantic at all, that the buck really stops at Warner’s, which is bigger than Atlantic. And I also realized I didn’t have anybody there. There’s no creative people involved. There’s no A&R person saying, “I’m your NEW representative.” None of that. It just goes straight to the accountants and lawyers who of course have no regard or time and don’t even listen to any of the albums. They just go, “Oh, we shut that label. Sorry.” And then hold onto the record until you either: (a) find the funds to buy it back yourself, which is kind of criminal in a way, or (b) you’re someone very fortunate like I was, who then went, “OK, well what’s Plan B?” And Plan B for me was, there’s no way I’m going to go the subsidiary route again. There’s no way I’m going to go the major route. That’s just too hard again to play with the expectations that come with being on a Sony or a Warner’s Direct.
So my options were, “OK, who are the best independent labels?” So my manager made a list. There were 4, and they all responded favorably. The main contenders once we did our homework were Vanguard and Ryko. And both said yes. And thank god Vanguard moved extremely quickly. They loved the album, they loved me, we did a lunch, we met everybody, and they just immediately moved into the process of trying to extract my record from the Black Hole, which they did. So thank god they did. Other people I don’t think were quite so fortunate.
So then of course I had to wait 6 months because my release date was in January. I’m making that sound so easy. I just COULD not believe it. I was absolutely devastated. Especially because literally we had just sent the advance to a very small…we did a very small first press run. We had 7 astonishing reviews in January, and record was due out January 29th. So of course we managed to use those great reviews to show the new labels who were interested. So it was obviously extremely disappointing and frustrating and just shows you you can’t rest on your laurels for a moment. It’s a rather relentless struggle, I find, just to get your songs out there. So here I go, Part 824. (laughs)

FEMMUSIC: I think you are extremely lucky. I know I’ve interviewed many other artists who haven’t seen their masters.

JF: Yes. It’s such an incredibly fascinating story that no one seems to have covered. Every bloody executive gets paid off, and they constantly will pay off every single member of the office staff to the tune of thousands and often millions from the President down, and yet the artists, so many artists…I mean, I had an email the other day from someone, saying “Hi, I just wanted to tell you that my friends-” and they named this band, I can’t remember who they are off the top of my head, but I was like, ‘Didn’t they have a massive hit?’ and then I read on that, “They had a huge Top 10 hit, and then something’s happened to them. They were on some label and they’ve just been dropped, god knows how. And they’re having problems because their record company-can you BELIEVE it, Julia?-they want to charge the band $350,000 to buy their own record back!” And I wrote them right back and said, “Yes I CAN believe it!” You’d be better off being an executive who’s never written a song in their whole life and then you’ll get paid off if you leave or if they want to get rid of you. There’s something almost tragic about it, I think. And I think it really chokes the life out of creativity and holds people back. And I’m just so lucky that thank god I left the record precisely as it was from start to finish, picked it up and ran with it. Otherwise I could’ve been extremely frustrated. Even more tears would have been shed than there already were. (laughs)

FEMMUSIC: That leads into my next question. What one thing would you like to change about the music industry itself?

JF: Well I think I probably just definitely answered it. I would change the fact that the music industry puts, I think, completely overpays its executives. I think there’s far too much money spent on beer tabs and bar tabs and expenses, and nowhere near enough money invested in bands. And I think that it’s some kind of dreadful uneven and frankly unfair balance when we constantly will pay off the executive but never cut the band any slack and make them pay for everything, even if the company collapses, closes down or drops the act. They never really give them the record back or cut them a really fabulous deal with how much they have to continue to recoup. I know obviously you get to walk away from the debt, but you never do, really. Even me with Virgin, my “Best Of” record start to go through the roof and I’d still be recouping for the rest of my life if I saw the money they lent me in the first place. I think it would be that.

FEMMUSIC: As a woman in the music industry, have you been discriminated against?

JF: I don’t think so. I’ve never felt that. And I know a lot of women feel that. I’ve always felt sort of very evenly set in my shoes. I’ve always felt very comfortable in my feminine skin, and I never have been aware of that. I just I don’t know. I’m all good to go with the business as a woman. I think you have to play the game. Not to use your feminine ways and whiles, but more just sort of accept that there’s a different energy around the man than there is the woman, and it’s all sort of yin and yang and works out in the wash, that’s how I see it. I never really have any issues with that stuff, and never had. I don’t know if I’m obvious; I just sort of haven’t really felt it.

FEMMUSIC: What advice would you give to an artist just starting out?

JF: I think I used to answer that question by saying, “Follow your instincts!” Now I think I would say, practice hard. Be really accomplished at what you do. Always keep your eye on the song. Be very clear whether you want to be a pop star or a musician.
The other thing I would say is you have to learn how to take a punch, because I think the people who are truly successful and have a lot of longevity are those who can, who are not…there are not that many people who are mediocre in their talent who go on to be massively successful for their whole life. Say like Elton John, ok? Even if Elton John is not your cup of tea, it’s clear that he’s a blinding talent. He’s an amazing piano player, he’s an amazing singer, he writes incredible songs, and he’s clearly a unique talent. And I think that one of the other things again is a good example about him, he was brave, he came out, he was gay, he had drug issues, and he’s taken repeated punches to the face and got up really quickly and carried on.
And I think that’s one of the biggest things, that you just kind of have to have your eye and heart on the music and let that propel you forward, and just be able to let the other stuff run over you. Because otherwise I think you get caught and lost along the way because it’s quite fickle, the industry, and certainly the tastes of people. It’s hard to sell records and be consistent in the marketplace. So I think you should always try and get a fan base together, and make sure you can function independently of the labels, because I think the times are coming when it’s going to be harder and harder to get a record deal. And stay afloat that way.